tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post4804908507878793318..comments2011-03-22T14:01:01.762ZNymethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16092495983972185943noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-33786013477999344482010-08-16T04:34:25.468+01:002010-08-16T04:34:25.468+01:00Does the author mention physics departments as an aside, or is she also describing Ms. Franklin&#39;s work as being physics related? The DNA work is definitely biology.<br /><br />I was a biology major in college, and when one of my teachers mentioned &quot;The Double Helix&quot; and Rosalind Franklin&#39;s unfortunate story, I read the book. I still have it, so I skimmed through the back because I seemed to recall that Watson basically apologized for the cavalier attitude that he and Crick had towards her and her work. <br /><br />Remembering that she was only 37 when she died, is sad because if she had lived longer she could have (hopefully) overcome the male attitudes.<br /><br />Watson was only 25 when the structure of DNA was discovered, so he was definitely immature -- and perhaps still hadn&#39;t outgrown his general attitude, based on comments here?<br /><br />I&#39;m definitely adding Maddox&#39;s book to my TBR list!Valeriehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10401551604933163595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-26846692503367772322010-08-15T23:31:24.912+01:002010-08-15T23:31:24.912+01:00Kathleen: I feel like my own education is dismal all the time, so you&#39;re not alone :P I&#39;m glad to have brought Franklin to your attention!<br /><br />Melanie: There are infuriating parts, of Maddox also makes it a celebration of Franklin&#39;s life and everything she achieved, which I thought was a great approach.<br /><br />J.T. Oldfield: I find genetics fascinating too! And I hope you&#39;ll enjoy the book!<br /><br />Care: He likes to pretend he&#39;s a character in a spy thriller :PNymethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16092495983972185943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-46087142608882286022010-08-13T03:49:18.578+01:002010-08-13T03:49:18.578+01:00What?! Copley is SPYING on me?! too funny.Carehttp://bkClubcare.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-77161877505965011652010-08-13T03:37:04.324+01:002010-08-13T03:37:04.324+01:00I&#39;m happy to have known of this story, though it&#39;s usually little more than a side note in text books. This sounds like a really in-depth approach. I&#39;d love to read it. If I was really good at science, I might&#39;ve gone into genetics, but since I&#39;m only ok at science, it never seemed like a good idea. I love genetics though!J.T. Oldfieldhttp://bibliofreakblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-10557941243112897972010-08-12T03:22:18.422+01:002010-08-12T03:22:18.422+01:00This book has been on my TBR for ages, but I&#39;ve been a little afraid to read it as I feel so angry just thinking of her situation I wasn&#39;t sure I&#39;d be up to the certain gnashing of teeth I&#39;d experience! Still, you give it such a thorough review that I must get to it sooner rather than later, and make sure I know all the facts. I love books about science &amp; women&#39;s contributions.Melwykhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04885378201188978664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-73997299478571724112010-08-11T22:19:29.143+01:002010-08-11T22:19:29.143+01:00I&#39;m so sad to admit that I have never heard of her before. I&#39;m so grateful to your blog for always bringing things to my attention and helping to fill in the gaps of my dismal (it seems at times) education.Kathleenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01739982274914536036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-42210401581871432322010-08-11T20:42:59.914+01:002010-08-11T20:42:59.914+01:00Rich: I think Wilson summed it up very nicely ;) And you&#39;re right; there&#39;s quite a bit of irony there. At least he did bring her story to the attention of more people. (Don&#39;t worry about the Wilson/Watson thing... that&#39;s totally something I&#39;d to too :P)<br /><br />Jenny: Sometimes it really sinks in how very RECENT all this stuff is. It&#39;s pretty horrifying :\<br /><br />Eva: Yes, exactly! I love books like this because they help me contextualise the present. <br /><br />Jill: It absolutely is!<br /><br />Aarti: I didn&#39;t know he was racist too, though it doesn&#39;t really surprise me to hear it :\ It does make you wonder how much he can know. I guess he got lost in the details of molecular biology and lost sight of the big picture. Not that that excuses it, of course!<br /><br />Vishy: The book mentioned Lise Meitner too, if I&#39;m not mistaken. It&#39;s so upsetting that these things have happened again and again :\ I haven&#39;t see Proof, but I very much want to now!<br /><br />Stephanie: *shudders* I know that a belief in eugenics was very common in the early 20th century, but he was working *after* WW2, which somehow makes it worse.<br /><br />Emily Jane: You&#39;re most welcome, and I hope you&#39;ll enjoy it!<br /><br />Care: I knew you&#39;d be looking for this this week because Copley keeps me informed of all your doings and intentions - and yes, far in advance, because he can SEE THE FUTURE. Mwahahahahahhaha ;)<br /><br />Jason: I see what you mean, but I&#39;d probably say that those are two separate issues - each as difficult to untangle as the other, of course. There&#39;s the fact that as reliable as the scientific method may be, it&#39;s put into practice by humans who&#39;ll make mistakes, bring their biases and personal relationships into the equation, etc. There are ways to safeguard it from that, but of course none are infallible. Then there&#39;s the matter of how science is portrayed by the media, what studies get attention, etc., which is definitely a huge mess. I loved Ben Goldacre&#39;s Bad Science exactly because it dealt with all that so well. As he says, one of the main issues is that the media miseducate people to think that scientific discoveries are sudden breakthroughs, when most of the daily (and hugely important) work consists of baby steps that pave the way for those breakthroughs. It&#39;s interesting to think of this in terms of Watson and Crick&#39;s breakthrough versus Franklin&#39;s work, which paved the way and was thought of as less important.Nymethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16092495983972185943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-6465186424598211732010-08-11T19:29:36.436+01:002010-08-11T19:29:36.436+01:00It&#39;s interesting to me, the story of Ms Franklin and of &#39;The Double Helix&#39; because it shows that the scientific community&#39;s work has never been able to completely disentangle itself to produce only science - I was originally going to say there is much in science that counteracts fact, but it isn&#39;t science that&#39;s at fault, it&#39;s scientists, and the public that consumes what they produce. Nor is it every scientist, and I would say more than likely that scientists now are a bit ahead of the general public in some ways than others. I notice the same thing on the news - any study that says anything whatsoever about weight loss, for instance, no matter how flimsy or exploratory, will be featured on the n ightly news, here. But a study on, say, malaria? Not so much. Which goes back of course and manifests in what we encourage or reward, what we fund, etc., as a society. We have this natural need to think of scientists the same way we think of saints and war heroes - and this encourages scientists sometimes to act in very unprofessional, counterproductive, anti-scientific ways. Not that I know how to untease that knot, though.Jason Gignachttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00900218197083383905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-53776096573622510412010-08-10T22:45:18.940+01:002010-08-10T22:45:18.940+01:00Nymeth, how DO you do it?! I was just chasing a link-stream and found an unrelated remark about Ms. Franklin and was thus dashing off to find a book - and wala! You review it THIS WEEK. wonderful!!Carehttp://bkclubcare.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-18870724695672902152010-08-10T18:00:44.069+01:002010-08-10T18:00:44.069+01:00This book sounds so good! Thank you for bringing it to our attention, it&#39;s going on my to-read list for sure.Emily Janehttp://www.bookedallweek.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-77714942727640041162010-08-10T13:49:27.049+01:002010-08-10T13:49:27.049+01:00James Watson was an odd bird and definitely an example of the fact that wisdom doesn&#39;t always accompany academic brilliance. Some of his statements suggest that he was a believer in eugenics. It gives one images of Nazism. Very depressing.<br /><br />Franklin has always intrigued me, partly because of her work on DNA and partly because she was discredited by her male colleagues. I learned more about her from reading your review, and I want to get my hands on this book. Thanks!Stephaniehttp://laughingstars.net/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-91635426254325801042010-08-10T12:09:40.016+01:002010-08-10T12:09:40.016+01:00Woops...my editor pointed out that it was Watson who lost his job for his big mouth, not Wilson. Wilson good...Watson bad...it&#39;s complicated...Richhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17074298154544756776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-45025747015635952742010-08-10T07:44:45.130+01:002010-08-10T07:44:45.130+01:00Wonderful review Ana! It is extremely sad what Watson did - stealing someone else&#39;s research / data and then justifying it. And the kind of comments he has made in his book on Rosalind Franklin - very sad! Rosalind Franklin reminds me of Lise Meitner, who didn&#39;t get credit when Otto Hahn won the Nobel prize, because she was a woman and she was Jewish. It is extremely sad when one thinks of those days - the blood absolutely boils! Your review also reminded me of the movie &#39;Proof&#39;. Have you seen it? It is about a mathematician and his daughter, and the daughter discovers the solution to a famous unsolved problem in mathematics and people doubt it because she is a woman and she is not formally trained and feel that she was passing her dad&#39;s findings as her own.Vishyhttp://vishytheknight.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-44699978336403943372010-08-10T05:41:02.132+01:002010-08-10T05:41:02.132+01:00James Watson is one of those people that I wish I didn&#39;t know so much about. We had to read The Double Helix in high school, and he was so egotistical in it. And now, even though he was a scientist who helped discover DNA, he is such a horrible racist bastard (pardon the word, but it&#39;s fitting), so it seems to me he can&#39;t even really know THAT much about DNA if he says the things that he does. <br /><br />I think I&#39;d much prefer Rosalind Franklin&#39;s account of the period, and I am glad that people are beginning to give her the justice she&#39;s due. There is actually a medical school in Illinois named after her, if that is any consolation :-)Aartihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02354873119188597611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-91252646525177440722010-08-10T02:50:52.840+01:002010-08-10T02:50:52.840+01:00I&#39;m so glad you read this! I loved this book, and think it&#39;s so important to know about, since everyone seems to know Watson and Crick!rhapsodyinbookshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07041412748239010264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-88082253044773916182010-08-09T23:58:07.226+01:002010-08-09T23:58:07.226+01:00On to the wishlist it goes! (Especially considering the problems with women and science even today, I think it&#39;s good to know the history.) Also, Watson is obviously a tool, and thus I don&#39;t feel bad about not having Double Helix on my wishlist. lolEvahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06703372903532502944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-76277508449379975882010-08-09T23:54:36.666+01:002010-08-09T23:54:36.666+01:00Ugh, I hate it when people write books and deliberately trash the characters of people they&#39;ve been friends with. (I am mentally cutting my eyes at Lord Alfred Douglas right now.) So mean.<br /><br />I am constantly being shocked by the backwardness of universities. The place where I&#39;m interning now, which is a fancy liberal university, didn&#39;t admit women as students until the late 1960s. Absolutely blows my mind.Jennyhttp://jennysbooks.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-3629212461985447582010-08-09T23:51:02.891+01:002010-08-09T23:51:02.891+01:00One of my heros, E. O. Wilson, who worked at Harvard with Jim Wilson, called him &quot;the most unpleasant human being I&#39;d ever met&quot;. The irony is that if he didn&#39;t write The Double Helix, Rosalind&#39;s story might have been much more obscure...and now nobody might know that he and Crick stole her data. We can at least take some joy in the fact that Wilson finally lost his job for running his incredibly big mouth. <br />Great review...I gotta read this!Richhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17074298154544756776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-75775771460905754612010-08-09T23:09:05.384+01:002010-08-09T23:09:05.384+01:00Marieke: Exactly. The disbelief just baffles me.<br /><br />Jessica: Yes, it really is. At least she went on to have a fulfilling career at Birkberk. But what a pity she died so young.<br /><br />Clare: Apparently even Francis Crick was really upset with what Watson did. I guess it&#39;s what Brenda Maddox said... the story needed a villain, and so he used her.<br /><br />Amy, I really think you&#39;d love it!<br /><br />Zibilee: Because I already knew the basics of the story I didn&#39;t experience that original gut reaction again, but there&#39;s definitely a lot here that&#39;s infuriating. It&#39;s such a great book, though!<br /><br />Debi: I&#39;ll definitely look for it! And yeah, how dare she swing her purse! Definitely asking for it :|<br /><br />Emidy: Sadly I think it still happens, though hopefully not to such a blatant extent :\<br /><br />Kathy: Yes, exactly. The saddest thing of all is that even today people don&#39;t remember her as she deserves to be remembered.<br /><br />Sakura: The book actually mentioned that film - apparently her family and friends felt that it helped correct the injustice of Watson&#39;s portrayal, but it still didn&#39;t quite acknowledge what a great scientist she was. And it mentioned Jocelyn Bell Burnell - I&#39;d love to read more about her.<br /><br />Iris, I think you would!<br /><br />Sandy: I think it does too, yes :\ We can&#39;t change history, but hopefully books like this one help a little bit.<br /><br />Chris: The book is great - you&#39;d love it for sure! And that&#39;s horrible that you see that at your hospital. Psychiatry is probably one of the areas where the male to female ratio is more balanced, and yet it still happens.<br /><br />Emily: Reading that literally made my chin drop. Maddox then goes on to tell an anecdote about a female foreign professor of physics who visited Princeton and had to be snuck in at night! <br /><br />Kristen: The Double Helix does sound like a great read, even if you have to take it with a grain of salt!Nymethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16092495983972185943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-17430547287006785772010-08-09T22:20:46.291+01:002010-08-09T22:20:46.291+01:00I&#39;m definitely going to have to read this one. The Double Helix is one of my favorites but, of course, it&#39;s not the whole story! Poor Rosalind.Kristen M.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02335598194501733541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-83221348884509616412010-08-09T18:20:34.098+01:002010-08-09T18:20:34.098+01:00Wow, that passage you pulled about Princeton women not even being allowed in the physics BUILDING is pretty amazing! I never knew it was more strongly sexist or ghettoized than other areas of scientific study (though, maybe it wasn&#39;t!). <br /><br />As other commenters have said, this book sounds fascinating and infuriating. Thanks for the great review.Emilyhttp://www.eveningallafternoon.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-83472767042470680542010-08-09T18:16:45.086+01:002010-08-09T18:16:45.086+01:00That is just so damn sad and frustrating!! And angering!! Though the book sounds incredible and fascinating. The injustice done to women in the field of science is just so disgusting. It still continues to be such a man&#39;s field and it&#39;s just horrible. I see it all the time with the one female psychiatrist we have on staff at our hospital...even the patients have little respect for her and she&#39;s an amazing doctor. Thanks for this great review, Ana!Chrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05793512698366676453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-90126117300141078382010-08-09T17:45:34.537+01:002010-08-09T17:45:34.537+01:00Grrr...just makes my blood boil to read your revealing review. I&#39;m sure this happened way more than we really want to know. I&#39;m intrigued with stories like this. Makes you wish you travel back in time and defend her honor.Sandy Nawrothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00564390728106776030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-74738391648979466132010-08-09T17:37:02.476+01:002010-08-09T17:37:02.476+01:00This sounds like the kind of book I&#39;d love.Iris on Bookshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04628900907749700236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7069484.post-14868700993822535012010-08-09T16:52:02.164+01:002010-08-09T16:52:02.164+01:00Oh, I have to read this book! I remember watching BBC&#39;s &#39;Life Story&#39; (&#39;The Race for the Double Helix&#39;), a film based on this book starring Juliet Stevenson and Jeff Goldblum, I think, in biology class at school and feeling so angry about the injustice she suffered. Similar to what happened to Jocelyn Bell Burnell, the astronomer, although she&#39;s gone on to have a very illustrious career.sakurahttp://www.chasingbawa.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com