Comments on things mean a lot: The Sunday Salon – Bookish Pet Peeves

Ooh, that hype thing really made me laugh. I do us...

2010-09-16T18:00:00.960+01:00

Ooh, that hype thing really made me laugh. I do use hype, sometimes, I'm afraid? But I know EXACTLY what you mean. It is what has kept me away from Last.fm for a while, because sometimes it feels it is simply a sport to have the most obscure bandnames in your list, because you know.. nobody could accuse you of following the hype.

I have a hard time with "transcends its genre...

2010-09-10T11:07:26.900+01:00

I have a hard time with "transcends its genre" as well. Great post, as always!

I linked this at Kate's Library as part of my Friday Five.

:) Ok, good I'm glad you didn't think I wa...

2010-09-09T19:32:32.816+01:00

:) Ok, good I'm glad you didn't think I was mocking you! I see what you mean. I hate it when people get snobbish about the "oh-that-band-is-so-[x]", putting themselves in the too-cool-for-school group doing so. There was a lot of that in Portland. The Suburbs wasn't what I wanted it to be, but honestly Neon Bible didn't live up to Funeral for me either! I'd still rank them as one of the better if not best bands I know, and I'm bloody jealous you're getting to go see them live!

Er... FIVE years ago :P

2010-09-08T21:38:32.668+01:00

Er... FIVE years ago :P

Veronica: I actually did not know that about "...

2010-09-08T21:38:05.706+01:00

Veronica: I actually did not know that about "film noir", and have probably made that mistake myself - live and learn! But yes, I completely agree with you about "genre" and the way the term is used. And I also never know how to bring those things up in conversation without sounding like an annoying know-it-all :P

Valentina: I wonder how many of these things I'd find in my earlier posts... kind of scary to think about :P And you said it perfectly re: the whole concept of "hype".

Kate, I'd never think you were saying that yourself, promise! I just wanted to explain why I picked that as an example - most of the conversations about the album I've read on music forums and such had that kind of this-band-is-so-give-years-ago-and-anyone-who's-yet-to-realise-it-is-a-huge-loser tone, which really rubbed me the wrong way. But yeah, I'm sorry to hear the album didn't work for you! I had really high expectations myself (they're one of my top ten favourite bands), but fortunately after being terrified by the first song I heard, Month of May, I fell in love with the rest of it. I *still* hate Month of May, but I just remove it from my playlist every time and pretend it doesn't exist ;)

No, no, I'd never say that! I didn't like ...

2010-09-08T19:48:02.982+01:00

No, no, I'd never say that! I didn't like The Suburbs so much myself, though I had really high expectations. But I don't think that means you're brainless or trying to be trendy! My opinion of the album doesn't mean that I get to somehow sneer at other peoples' opinions - I hope you didn't think that was what I was trying to say!

I'm with you on so many of those pet peeves (w...

2010-09-08T18:48:07.730+01:00

I'm with you on so many of those pet peeves (which aren't so petty after all). I cringed when I once looked back to one of my old reviews and saw that I wrote "YA genre" or "graphic novel genre", I forget now. I edited it straight away but it just goes to show just how sometimes what annoys you on a conscious level can be repeated on an unconscious (or just distracted) level. I am the first to be annoyed at people who dismiss manga as a whole because they've read a single bad one, and then I go and make the same mistake?! Bah.

As for the word "hype", I get it. I feel something special when the love for a movie, or a book, or a band I enjoy is shared by millions of other people in the world and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Just think about the whole Harry Potter craze. It's huge *and* beautiful, also because of its vastness.
It's the same feeling I get when I'm at a gig of a band I adore. I do want them to get huge, and be loved universally, and if that means they will lose fans because of that, good riddance, they weren't really listening to the band because of the music they made, but because it was cool to do it then, and now it's not.
I guess some people just prefer to feel separate from the masses, but by doing that are still indirectly influenced by the "hype", only in the opposite way, if that makes any sense.

I don't read a whole lot of graphic novels or ...

2010-09-04T00:09:37.255+01:00

I don't read a whole lot of graphic novels or comics (and by that I mean I don't read any) or YA novels, but I can totally relate to the annoyance of people referring to them as a genre. I was just talking to my sister about this earlier today, but it's the same thing as when people refer to the "film noir" genre in movies. It's not a genre, it's a style of filming. I think a lot of people are sometime unaware of exactly what "genre" means and instead just use it as a word to signify some kind of similarity within the group of things they're talking about and not specifically a similarity in content. This goes for incorrectly describing things as novels or simplistic. I try to make sure the words I'm using are accurately saying what I think I'm saying, and I'm sure I make mistakes all the time, but I agree, it's totally annoying to pick up on other people's mistakes. Cause you want to correct them, but there's really no way to do that without looking like a douche. :)

Kate: I love The Suburbs - I really don't mind...

2010-09-02T20:19:37.604+01:00

Kate: I love The Suburbs - I really don't mind if anyone feels differently, of course, but I DO very much resent the common implication that my liking it must mean I'm brainless or just trying to be trendy or both. About that or anything else, really!

Beth: I'm not clear on "transcending the genre" myself either :P I'm more guilty of universal recommendations than of any of the others, I think, but like I said they don't bother me was much as un-recommendations :P

Emily: On the one hand I definitely see why the generalisation upset you, but on the other hand it's a but of a conundrum. I guess that in practical terms it's likely that there will be people particularly interested in books for children, YA, etc, for professional or personal reasons, who would welcome a list of blogs that focus on them. But on the other hand, yes, it's absolutely unfair that adult fiction is the only further divided into several categories. It's the same with libraries and bookshops. How to find a categorisation system that will be useful to people but won't reinforce stereotypes or create literary ghettos?

Iliana: Yeah, spoilers warnings are just a matter of common courtesy! Sometimes leaving them out is impossible, but it's not hard to include a warning of some sort.

Jenners: But you know I love you anyway, right? :P

This was very interesting .. and I must confess th...

2010-09-01T02:30:56.646+01:00

This was very interesting .. and I must confess that I'm guilty of a few of your pet peeves!

I really enjoyed reading about your pet peeves and...

2010-09-01T00:46:49.984+01:00

I really enjoyed reading about your pet peeves and I think I learned some new stuff :)

Unfortunately I am so guilty of some of these! Especially when talking about YA and Graphic Novels.

My pet peeves? Probably reviews that contain spoilers. Of course that makes it hard to talk about books sometimes but I try to let people know if spoilers are coming up.

Violet: I guess we have to agree to disagree about...

2010-08-31T22:23:03.784+01:00

Violet: I guess we have to agree to disagree about YA :P I just don't see it following certain conventions in the same way a mystery or a fantasy book does, if that makes sense. But I can see how keeping all different genres of YA together can make things easier, especially at a library or bookshop. As for "simple", I have nothing against it at all! Simple can be good, but in my head "simplistic" can't :P

Ladytink: I don't mind seeing "YA" used as a general label (I do it myself); just when people assume all YA novels are the same!

Zibilee: I do love you anyway! And yes, I hate spoilers too :\

Joanna: I worry that calling it a genre makes it easier for people to dismiss it, though I guess some readers would do that anyway. Their loss :P And I worry that I "inflate" words myself, but if I do it's because as a native speaker of a Latinate language some of them don't actually sound "big" to me, and are more familiar than their Anglo-Saxon counterparts.

Karen: I wish we could quit talking about bandwagons altogether ;) And yes, shelving them in the same place does make sense - but that doesn't mean they're all the same! It puzzles me that people readily acknowledge that about literary fiction but not about graphic novels or YA.

Elisabeth: Aw, thank you for the kind words! Much of what I did hear was really laugh at myself, as I know I've done most if not all of these before :P

Jenny: Yeah, I can definitely see how excessive made up words can REALLY put people off epic fantasies, and you know I say that as a fantasy fangirl :P

Amy: That mostly just confuses me, because I can't figure out what exactly is meant by it anyway :P

Andi: You know I love you anyway, though :D

Fence: Don't worry; I do the same re: YA and GNs as a label :P

Daphne: Exactly! And thank you :)

Valerie: Yes! It makes little sense. I guess it's convenient to shelf them together, but it can also create a sort of literary ghetto into which some readers never wander - which is a shame.

Amy: Sorry; I do repeat the GNs one a lot :P And yes, I might have used "message" before myself, but when I think about all the word tends to imply I really shy away from it.

"For very similar reasons, the expression ...

2010-08-31T20:54:45.104+01:00

"For very similar reasons, the expression 'the YA genre' – to me this is every bit as absurd as claiming that the whole of adult fiction is a single genre. There are YA romances, YA mysteries, YA fantasy novels; there's YA science fiction, YA realistic fiction, YA dystopia, and so on. Once again, my problem with calling YA a genre is that it makes it sound a lot more samey than it actually is."

Yes!!! While I'm all excited about the upcoming Book Blogger Appreciation Week and think it's a really great and all that good stuff, I was really, REALLY irritated when I saw that "YA" and "KidLit" each got one niche, while "Nonfiction," "Romance," etc all got their own niches. Thanks, guys. Because, you know, adult literature is just so complex and diverse that it needs multiple categories to describe it while CHILDREN'S literature, on the other hand . . . well, it's just all the same. It just feels so dismissive! Argh!

So, I guess I would say my pet peeves largely have to do with children's literature. I get a little feisty and defensive :)

I'm so behind -- as usual. I agree with so mu...

2010-08-31T14:08:21.025+01:00

I'm so behind -- as usual.

I agree with so much you said here. I haven't yet read the 50+ comments, but will get there.

GN: Yes!! It's a medium, like audio, like eBook. It is not a genre. Actually I like to say: graphic memoir, graphic nonfiction, illustrated nonfiction, or some other language when the book is not a novel.

Yes: must be careful that the book is actually a novel.

Yes: characters can have thoughts and viewpoints that aren't the authors.

I admit it, I don't know what "transcending the genre" even means. LOL.

And although I'm guilty at times, I do prefer to recommend for certain readers, not universally. As in "recommended for those who love a little mystery with their historical novels."

Great post.

Ok, you killed me with the Arcade Fire reference...

2010-08-31T10:48:20.053+01:00

Ok, you *killed* me with the Arcade Fire reference, since that's exactly what I thought of their new album but without using the word hype. I hate to say it, but I'm too old for hipster slang. And 31 is not old.

I love it Ana! Some great ones in there, that both...

2010-08-31T03:11:37.067+01:00

I love it Ana! Some great ones in there, that bother me and that I do :D Heh. I was not surprised to see the comment about the 'graphic novel genre', I believe I've heard that one before from you! Some of those - like message - are spot on. If the book is just this message then I'm not sure I want to read it! That being said, I'm not sure I haven't said it before ;)

Wisteria: Don't get me started on either "...

2010-08-30T22:23:39.481+01:00

Wisteria: Don't get me started on either "chick lit" or "women's fiction"! As for subjectivity or negative reviews, I don't think there's anything wrong with either, but I've gone on about that many times in the past, so I'll spare you now :P

Emily: I definitely see your point, and I've encountered that more neutral usage before. But I guess I've been exposed to the negative one so many times that I can't get over my dislike of the word. Not very reasonable, I know, but I can't help it :P I promise I don't necessarily assume that people are being dismissive if they say "hype", though. Like you said, having a way to refer to the expectations that other people's reactions to something cause is indeed useful. I personally prefer "buzz" because I can't dissociate "hype" from the way it's generally used in hipster culture, but I won't resent anyone for using the latter.

She: Yes, how it's said definitely makes a huge difference - this list is based on generalisations and exaggerations, but like I said in my disclaimer I'm far more understanding when dealing with real people. Or I try to be!

Sandy: You are not dense, Sandy! And I'm guilty of so many of them myself. Also, yes - don't tell me the whole story, please! One *brief* synopsis is more than enough, thank you.

Steph: You guessed right - not a fan of age branding at all! This site says it all, really. It especially bothers me because it's an easy way of making children who are behind the reading level that's considered normal for their age group feel inadequate and give up on reading for pleasure altogether. A 13-year-old will often feel horribly embarrassed if given a book that clearly says its target age range is 8-10, and yet they could benefit immensely from reading it.

Vasilly: Yeah, I'm not a fan of posts that are merely a description of the book. I can read that on Amazon or wherever. Why bother?

unfinishedperson: Ha - I deserved that, didn't I? :P Anyway, we all try! Many of these can be found on my blog as well.

Bina: Probably as many as me :P And yeah, it baffles me when someone reviews, say, a Gothic novel and says, "it was too Gothic!" Which sounds absurd, but I've actually seen things like that. And YES - why do so many people think it's okay to spoil classics? Even the back cover summaries of many of them are often FULL of spoilers. Why?!

Rhinoa: Yes, they do work as sections at the bookshop, and come in handy for people like you and me :P I just don't like it when people assume that means they're all stereotypical. Anyway, I'm not a fan of the things you mentioned either!

Gavin: Yes, like Emily and Steph were also saying, "hype" used in that more general marketing sense is fine. But I'll probably never get over my bias against the word :P I've seen those new Hale covers and I'm SO with you! The old ones were so pretty too :\

Stephanie: I do catch myself doing it from time to time as well, Stephanie! It's only human, but it's good to pay attention.

Jill: I worry that I'm more guilty of spelling and grammar errors than anyone else. Best not to think about it :P

Clare: Yes, exactly! The whole idea that to be a fan is to be brainless just drives me crazy.

Christina: I guess a book can belong to more than one category at once. Still, I think people just assume that genres are stereotypical by default, which is a great shame!

Emidy: I do have a "YA" label as well, so I guess I'm guilty in that sense :P

Hmm, I think I've used "novel" and &...

2010-08-30T20:41:42.320+01:00

Hmm, I think I've used "novel" and "book" interchangeably. I'll have to think more on that one!

As for "graphic novels" as genre, it does drive me a bit crazy that they are all lumped together in bookstores when the subject matter could be so different between them. Why not put the "Maus" books in with world history where they should be -- for example?!

What a great post -- love this! I agree -- PLEASE ...

2010-08-30T19:12:30.460+01:00

What a great post -- love this! I agree -- PLEASE figure out if it's a novel or a collection or what. Not all books are novels!

Oh dear, I use both YA & graphic as a genre la...

2010-08-30T19:05:26.582+01:00

Oh dear, I use both YA & graphic as a genre label, but in my defence I'll usually combine it with an actual genre :)
And I think I'm guilty of mis-using simplistic as well.

I usually avoid reading books that are hyped, not because I think they are all hype, but because all that positivity means I'll often raise my expectations too high. But I usually get around to it eventually.

I'm a chronic overuser of the word hype, thoug...

2010-08-30T18:32:08.682+01:00

I'm a chronic overuser of the word hype, though I'd never thought about it the way you presented it here. Something to chew on! Thanks, Ana!

Had to come back because I thought of another one!...

2010-08-30T17:50:42.384+01:00

Had to come back because I thought of another one! I hate it when people say a book takes itself too seriously or isn't as weighty as it thinks it is. This drives me nuts.

Oh, yeah, and a post by Clare (of Literary Omnivor...

2010-08-30T15:43:58.636+01:00

Oh, yeah, and a post by Clare (of Literary Omnivore) just reminded me how much I hate it when authors make up a zillion words and stick them in their book so you are constantly having to flip back and forth to figure out what the hell everyone's on about. After about ten of these (ten being a generous estimate), I'm usually done.

Excellent post, Ana. I agree with most everything ...

2010-08-30T14:37:54.746+01:00

Excellent post, Ana. I agree with most everything - including how I am often the culprit of my most hated peeves. But this is why I love you. Those of us who write about literature have a responsibility to get it as "right" as we can, and using literary terms inaccurately do not benefit our cause. You are helping us be better at what we do by bringing our attention to some errors and in a very non-affronting way. Bravo.

Great post -- thought provoking and also funny. I...

2010-08-30T14:28:57.434+01:00

Great post -- thought provoking and also funny. I agree, some of these are so irritating -- especially the one about hype, jumping off & on the bandwagon, etc. And I completely agree about graphic novels and YA as genres -- graphic novels are a format, YA is an audience, or a target audience, if you want to be even more specific. As a librarian, I can understand why certain things are shelved together, but it doesn't necessarily make them the same.

Comments on things mean a lot: The Sunday Salon – Bookish Pet Peeves

Ooh, that hype thing really made me laugh. I do us...

I have a hard time with "transcends its genre...

:) Ok, good I'm glad you didn't think I wa...

Er... FIVE years ago :P

Veronica: I actually did not know that about "...

No, no, I'd never say that! I didn't like ...

I'm with you on so many of those pet peeves (w...

I don't read a whole lot of graphic novels or ...

Kate: I love The Suburbs - I really don't mind...

This was very interesting .. and I must confess th...

I really enjoyed reading about your pet peeves and...

Violet: I guess we have to agree to disagree about...

"For very similar reasons, the expression ...

I'm so behind -- as usual. I agree with so mu...

Ok, you *killed* me with the Arcade Fire reference...

I love it Ana! Some great ones in there, that both...

Wisteria: Don't get me started on either "...

Hmm, I think I've used "novel" and &...

What a great post -- love this! I agree -- PLEASE ...

Oh dear, I use both YA & graphic as a genre la...

I'm a chronic overuser of the word hype, thoug...

Had to come back because I thought of another one!...

Oh, yeah, and a post by Clare (of Literary Omnivor...

Excellent post, Ana. I agree with most everything ...

Great post -- thought provoking and also funny. I...

Ok, you killed me with the Arcade Fire reference...